Thoughts on Kingdom, Church, and Grace from an American living in Hong Kong

Tuesday, January 6, 2009

More on Rick Warren's Invocation

The invitation to Pastor Rick Warren to give a prayer at the inauguration of President-Elect Barack Obama continues to generate controversy. Rep. Barney Frank, one of three openly gay congressman, has led the charge of disappointment with the incoming administration for including the homophobic Warren in the day's planned events.

Says Frank,
Mr. Warren compared same-sex couples to incest. I found that deeply offensive and unfair.

Wait a second?? Stop the presses! Hasn't the argument by gay rights advocates over the last few years been that loving relationships between consenting adults be above any critique or question? If Barney Frank were intellectually honest, he could not be offended that his intimate relationship between consenting adults would be compared to another intimate relationship between consenting adults.

Instead he adopts the same intolerant attitude that he accuses Rick Warren of having. Makes me wonder if someone in an incestuous relationship would be offended with Warren as well that their intimate, loving relationship would be compared to homosexuality.

I mean hey, at least they have biology on their side...

I say all of this a little tongue in cheek as I obviously find both types of relationships in the "here be dragons" side of the ocean. But if Rep. Frank, along with many of the shrill voices denouncing the Warren invocation, could see that many (if not most) Americans see his relationship on the same plane as the one that so deeply offends him, perhaps he would be a little less angry.

Just a thought...


Redlefty said...

I'm not following you on this one -- I'm pretty sure Mr. Frank was talking about adult/child situations, which is often what is meant by incest, right?

In that case it's not between two adults, it doesn't include mutual consent, and it wouldn't be a good comparison to gay couples.

Brook said...

Red -
adult/child situations are called pedophilia. incest can be between two consenting adults - brother/sister, etc. It can also be adult/child as you say, but that isn't necessarily implied by "incest".

I think the comparison is a pretty good one, though ultimately down the line I don't think it will lead to a renunciation of the idea of gay coupling but rather an acceptance of consentual insestuous relationships too. unwilling to give up the "right" to gay marriage, it's supporters will ultimately have to say "yeah, you're right, anything adults choose to do is ok". I think the argument against it has to stand on its own merits and not on the "obvious wrongness" of a comparison or similar situation. to do so is still to rest on subjective and relative morality.

Steve H. said...

Yes, Brook is right Redlefty. In the video, Warren gives two seperate distinctions. One being pedophelia and the other being incest. Because I was not making a moral argument here, I ignored the pedophilia comparison and focused on the consenting adults question. If love and intimacy between consenting adults is a private affair, Rep. Frank should not have been offended.

Bob said...

But Barney Frank is not concerned with any of that. He doesn't like Rick Warren and can't stand that someone with a different opinion than he will do the invocation. It's that simple. He is a hypocrite and is intolerant. Kudos to President-elect for not backing down on this one. And cheers to Rick Warren for staying true to his convictions.